Sproul Jr.s spiritual abuse of former church members and entire families. They will need it and find many facing the same problems that they are, or have faced problems that they have and have words of wisdom to share. It takes a tremendous faith in Gid, as well as support from non judgement all Christians to let go and let your child experience the consequences. @ Nancy2 (aka Kevlar): These need help. I thought I had addressed this issue, but apparently the post didnt enter. Im just curious, how does a person sitting in a church service every Sunday help to treat someones alcoholism? According to Spinderella, Sproulhas allegedly been drunkdriving with his kids for years. I turned 13 about a month after the wreck and felt like a freak! I guess in a way it is a statement that is all some can make at the time, but they do it anyway. Sentenced aggressively and appropriately Sad but these christian pastors et al wont even go that far with a rapist or child molester. No, it doesnt always work. ), you assume that Barbara is against treatment and have gone on and on about your assumption without even fact checking. He sounds arrogant and terrible. And even if they want it sometimes its too difficult. I had a wound in between my eyes that was so deep you could see the bone. I think that would apply even to alcoholics or people with other sorts of problems. They see insult where none was intended, and are quick to react and hurl barbs and insults in retaliation. Those two do not go together. The Bible says that those who profess to be brothers in Christ and are drunkards need to be expelled from the church. Scroll down to the bottom of the post. It appears that the message is that if we allow someone to that has no intention of repenting to go on like business as usual, we are NOT helping the person and it sends the wrong message to others. But he stopped going to AA and we realized he was drinking again. Intervention only works when the abuser is willing to submit to a program. You and Barbara Roberts have never said, You know, I have no clue how to deal with substance abuse.. He needs to be in an in-patient treatment program. It wont. Father S, the RCC priest when we did RCIA, said that in the early church when somebody sinned they had to go around individually and confess and reconcile each with everybody, and that this caused problems in and of itself. It is natural for a father to want to protect a child from the consequences of their actions but at some point in time when the child keeps doing this the parent has let them experience the consequences. He did get booted out of office and will most ptobably lose his law license . I said on my blog that the TOPIC itself was banned, which I find detrimental to women who are in abusive relationships (whether marriage, friendship, at work, etc). Barbara Roberts wrote: We heard stories of them being looked down on because a son or daughter was involved in drugs, alcohol, sex and other issues. Some of it I dont think is fair, but there may be some merit in it. u Vk$XXA,0D0@+H $ Neither one of us are church goers and our family is no overly religious. Unfortunately, I think he's a psychopath. The point of it is to not enable the bad behavior. Alcoholics are liars- the best liars. This is so dangerous. No prison time. I have been nice to H.A. Parish? Society meanwhile needs to jerk peoples licenses away from them and remove them from their jobs when necessary including withdrawing staff privileges at the hospital or refusing admission to the pulpit much less being a truck driver-all of it. And I know about substance abuse. Here is psychologist/author/cult expert/Thought Reform expert Steve Hassan explaining was immature. How to Resign from a Church There is no gradual progression or build-up. Addictive behavior can certainly impact the mind and body, so that the medical community has to eventually treat the consequences of alcohol abuse. (And we are all frustrated with the double standards we have seen!!). What was it like in my Patriarchal home, you ask? It causes me to stretch and to become more understanding. 3. Velour wrote: IMO, any so called Christian who is not angry about this needs to take a good look at their own heart. Churchill might not be the best example; according to his daughter, he drank less than commonly believed. If you posted something negative about Dee or Barb at my blog as you have here, Id remove your comment, too. wine is a good gift of the Lord I cannot forbid my brother in Christ from drinking (R.C. I just see the hope really being in getting people like him into treatment, and getting treatment/support for their family members. While Intox or Controlled Substance: Passenger Under 18. I guess I was looking at it from the viewpoint of Sprouls victims. The writer Anne Lamott, a recovering alcoholic, writes about going to a black church in Northern California when Anne was not sober. Intervention: the RIGHT kind by STRONG people who really care about him is needed before a tragedy unfolds. Sproul is with the Lord now. Thanks for your response, thoughts, and viewpoint. I have known people in 12 step programs getting involved in churches to help maintain their spiritual program of recovery along those lines. Many people including women secretly struggle with addiction in the church. Once again, you are a bit strong. The scars are still there but not that noticeable. No ignition interlock, no restrictions in terms of when and where he can drive, no restrictions on who can be in the car with him (children, etc.). Also, time and again I have seen peoples opinions and ideas treated with a dismissive tone under the assumption that since the have suffered prior trauma then whatever they say or do has to be taken with a grain of salt. R C Sproul Junior needs to be put out of the church and that needs to be very publicly done because he has been so significant at Ligonier. I have noticed that you get stuck in a rut and keep going over the same thing over and over again, even though you know the issues have already been covered and logically and responsibly discussed. When youre a non-drinker at social functions, the drinkers noticed. Have to agree. She still would have died, but alone and condemned. I used to be a nurse so that word is familiar to me. So Ill start to believe that RC is repentant when he contacts me personally to confess and repent of all the damage he caused me and my family. We cant assume they cant be helped, no. God have mercy. Im comfortable with my apostasy, you make being an unbeliever sound bad. So I was only saying what the Bible says. I made a few personal connections with ppl. Our justice system and plea deals and the pitfalls of that could be a whole topic. Family helping an alcoholic usually does not help. It was crystal clear. It would be unethical for me to do so. I think both him and his dad would have been jerks with or without alcohol. Anyway, some of the stuff I discovered is that AA (and groups similar to it) have a high failure rate. Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? The county health plan and hospital also has appointments for people who cant afford private care. I got to tell them, they were somewhat angry at me but there was a lot of emotions. He had never slept through an earthquake before even the small ones. H.A. developing an alchoholic psychosis), then they have to have help to be restored enough to MAKE a decision about if they want to go forward in a good direction or not And, yes, thankful for Dee's post. Even Sproul Jr says so. Ones dad ritually abused her as a baby, and another one doesnt even know his dad. Weve already discussed this up the thread. The other does not. No record and right back into ministry he goes! How does keeping an alcoholic in the church help that person, or, more specifically, rid them of the alcoholism? Being Married to a Pedophile: A Wife Speaks Out and Offers Hope to Other Wives ofPedophiles, Bodily Autonomy, Reproductive Rights, and the Christian Patriarchy Motion The Revealer - Olusolacoker.com, Bodily Autonomy, Reproductive Rights, and the Christian Patriarchy Movement The Revealer, Claire Roise: Oppressed and Defenseless Women within the Church, Flying Free: Help for Survivors of Emotional Abuse, Lori Anne Thompson on Clergy Sexual Misconduct. Any time Ive ever gone to a church, what normally happens is I attend a Sunday School class where a teacher raises some topic (not pertaining to alcoholism), then I go and sit in the large worship area where I listen to a rock band play. My problem isnt with the Bible, its with your lack of knowledge about how to treat addictions in the Christian community. The Bible does not teach that all sins are equal in severity. Why? If you have training, why did you let H.A. Putting your own estimation of the weight of those actions simply show that you have a misperception of Gods holiness by thinking the bar of the law is set so low that your sins arent as repugnant as someone elses. No-one was there for me either Daisy. My first thought was this seems unrelated because of the alcoholism, but Scott brings up a good point about being put out. My biggest concern is that he'll give some time for the dust to settle and then weasel his way back into "ministry." Crickets. In fact, in my post there last Monday I express outrage about how PCA churches are often excommunicating victims of domestic abuse for divorcing their abusers. My FIL was a terrible abusive drunk, he eventually got sober at age 54. Good point, Jeff. Its great the people at her church were nice to her and paid for her funeral, but from what I recall of the story, she ended up dying even after entering a hospital? 30-90 day inpatient treatment is cost prohibitive for a lot of people, even if they wanted to go. Two very separate issues here. My specific concern about Barbaras comment, and others like it, is thats NOT how substance abusers are supposed to be handled, or for that matter their families. As I said above, in this day and age, people can use the internet to Google for names and addresses of treatment centers or psychologists. Not all former drinkers transform into likeable people. Not always. Will his children ever step foot in a church again after seeing their father get publicly humiliated? I was very clear that R.C. Based on his history I am sure he did it numerous times without getting caught. And have a happy upcoming wedding anniversary. Hes has experienced tragedy and he needs treatment but at the core is still an odious personality. Its rude. With as much as hes paying his attorney, and as competent as his attorney is, he could very well convince the court to drop the felony and convert it to a misdemeanor. They will not change who the man fundamentally is. Hes a drunkard, by definition. Some might call it being accountable. The Bible says that Christ Jesus went about healing all who were oppressed of the devil. We asked to leave by the end of the month. It seems to me that secure and confident men (I dont like the term real men/women) should do as they wish/deem wise themselves, instead of acting like teenage boys trying to impress each other. 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